Category: RV Repairs

These are posts that have to do with fixing the trailer(s)

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Baffles? Who Needs Baffles?

Another trip, some more gotchas. I’ve pulled the issues from my regular trip blog so they are more accessible.

Refrigerator without baffles

This was a three week, “out west” trip.  Where doesn’t really matter except its hot?  Another blog will talk about this trip, with pictures.  This blog is about the various technical problems encountered on this trip.   Altitude is 6000 ft plus.  The sun is burning down the side of our RV where the refrigerator sits.  And it’s getting warm inside the fridge.  Up till now, we hadn’t had any issue with its cooling but the temp is creeping up north of 40.  So, I do what I always do, I start poking around to see what isn’t right.

First, I rearrange some of the food to make sure there is sufficient air flow.  Our little inside fan is working – but I replaced the batteries anyway because they have been spinning for over a month.  The temperature creeps up another degree or two as the afternoon wears on.

Outside – I pull the access door off and start looking around.  I was familiar with this compartment as I had installed a UV water purifier for the ice maker back in a corner out of the way.  I should have looked around a bit more while I was working in there.

Looking up right side along burner stack.
Looking up right side along burner stack.
Looking up near the burner stack at upper coil - no baffles.
Looking up near the burner stack at upper coil – no baffles. I’m not sure I see the vent.
After I installed Reflectix baffle between the bottom coil and outside wall.
After I installed Reflectix baffle between bottom coil and outside wall.
After installed reflectix in 9x9 corner space that ran the full height of the refrigerator.
After installed reflectix in 9×9 corner space that ran the full height of the refrigerator.

The space behind the refrigerator was a good 8 inches deep from the back of the fridge box to the inside of the outside wall.  In the left corner, there was a 9×9 inch open vertical column.  So what, you ask?  Well, I go grab the manual for your refrigerator and it has an installation section – that tells me that baffles must be installed so that any air drafting up past the back of the refrigerator coils is directed THROUGH the coils, not merely in the general vicinity.  Well, my RV was built by Forest River – so there were zero baffles near the lower coils and nothing blocking the 81 square inches of empty space in the left corner.  I couldn’t see clearly if there was a baffle near the upper coils as required in the installation manual.  That will wait until I pull the roof vent off and inspect the top.  But I did look at the vent itself and it looks like it is installed way too close to the roof, thus further limiting air flow.  There are no fans moving air – the refrigerator relies on a natural draft.  If most of that draft can go through the space without getting near the coils – things don’t work right.

Since we were on the road – I came up with a quick fix.  I grabbed some Reflectix and fashioned a block for the open space and a baffle to direct air through the lower coils and locked them in place with aluminum tape.  Over the next few days, the refrigerator ran 4 to 5 degrees cooler.  Upon returning home I inspected it all and the reflectix was still firmly in place.  My plan is at some point to install more permanent baffles but I need to pull the roof vent off first and inspect up there.

This is yet another case of an RV manufacturer violating installation rules laid out by the appliance manufacturer.

Power Center

On another occasion, I pulled out the manual for my power center.  One of the first instructions on the installation page was DO NOT MOUNT VERTICALLY.  They wanted the unit mounted horizontally – I presume for cooling purposes.  How is mine mounted?  Vertically.  Does it matter?  I don’t know.  I do know that at random times we are on outside AC power, the cooling fan on the “converter” (aka battery charger) comes on screaming full speed for about a minute.  Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?  Makes me wonder.  I’m planning to upgrade my RV to solar with a new Inverter/Charger, so maybe it won’t matter.  But, how long before it would fail due to inadequate cooling if I kept on using it?

Microwave

We have a Convection/Microwave oven mounted above the standard stove hood/fan.  It sits in a wooden box with a metal face plate filling in the front gap between the sides of the microwave and the box.  The plate has “cooling/venting” slots.  Whenever we cook anything (convection or not), the microwave ends up with a huge amount of condensation inside it.  This can’t be good for it.  I’m sure it violates the manufacturing installation requirements.  They essentially put the microwave into a closed box so any venting the microwave does out its side or back is simply cycled right back into its intake vent.  I’m sure it wasn’t designed to operate in a condensing atmosphere.  Fortunately, since it is a convection oven, whenever it stops heating – the fans continue to run and we leave the door open to help it dry out.  This is on my list to be corrected before the next trip out.  I’ll pull the metal trim, and the microwave and look at the intended air flow pattern.  Then make sure the airflow around the microwave receives fresh air and the exhaust leaves the microwave cabinet.  I expect some holes and perhaps a fan will be required.   While I’m at it I’m going to find some way to open/close the stove vent from the INSIDE.  Going outside, in the rain, after the RV has been jacked up is no fun.  Neither is realizing that at 60mph on the highway that constant flapping noise is the vent you forgot to close.  How far is the next rest stop?

Gas tank Fill tube

On one leg of our trip, we did a fair amount of uphill on the highway, pulling the truck behind.  We pulled into a gas station and I attempted to fill the tank. Every time I squeezed the trigger on the nozzle – it shut right off.  I was thinking at first, I had picked a bad pump.  I pulled the nozzle further and further out thinking splashing gas might be shutting it off.  Then I noticed that when I was trying to put gas in – gas fumes and droplets were flying back out of the fill all around the nozzle.  Seems like perfect conditions for a static discharge to start a fire….  Then I realized:  the fill tube was so hot that gas was boiling on its way to the tank.  In nearly 9000 miles up to this point it hadn’t happened till now.  I can only presume it was a combination of the high altitude, hot sun and pushing the Triton engine up the hills plus the right wind direction.  Oh and the fact that the fill tube crosses a channel next to the frame leaves it exposed to hot air passing under the RV.  I kept putting gas in, in short spurts and eventually the fill tube cooled enough I was able to fill the tank.  When we later passed a hardware store I picked up some foam pipe insulation and fashioned an insulator for the fill tube with gaffer’s tape and tie wraps.  Hopefully, problem solved.

Campground electrical

I have an EMS for my campground hookups.  I plug in my extension cord to the RV – then to the pedestal – with the breaker off.  Then flip on the breaker and go look at the EMS display.  It will show the frequency and voltage for about 30 seconds while checking the quality of the power – then connect the RV if all is well.  Prior to connecting – the EMS showed 119 volts.  A bit low.  When it connected, (and the battery charger was on), it dropped to 114.  When the A/C kicked in – it dropped below 100 and the EMS kicked out.  This wasn’t unexpected as when I plugged the cable into the pedestal I notice one of the connections had been hot enough to toast the edges of the insulator.  We called the campground owner to check and he moved us to another spot.

Overall – things have gone pretty well mechanically on this trip. The refrigerator will cost a couple more hours to make sure everything is set up right.  I fixed the gas fill tube on the road.  The microwave will be another couple of hours at least to fix before we head out again.  I’ll update this blog when I get it modified.  If I get it modified……

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SeeLevel II Replay

First Version

A couple of years ago now we purchased a SeeLevel system for our 26ft trailer, well because the tank monitors were screwing up even before we started filling our tanks.  That install was pretty straightforward as things around RVs go.  All three tanks were transverse in the front half of the trailer.  All the factory monitors and thus wires were on the same side. The sides of the tanks were flat so placing the sensors was easy.  SeeLevel II reuses the existing wiring so that wasn’t a problem either.  Inside the trailer – the factory level gauge was in the upper left corner of the main control panel and there was sufficient room that I was able to cut out the factory junk and then insert the SeeLevel panel right into the hole over the panel.

Second Version

So eventually, we traded in our TT for a Class C; Forest River, Sunseeker 3050S.  You might think with a bigger vehicle, it might be easier to get the guts and work on things.  Nope – no way, nada, can’t do it!  Well, it won’t be easy.

The first clue was that the fresh water fill was 6 feet up on the right side.  Huh?  In the bedroom – there is a closet that runs the length of the right side of the RV. It stops 2 feet or so above the floor. The fresh water tank is in that space.  If you take out the closet floor (don’t), you can see the top of the tank. If you go into the rear basement storage and take out the front wall – you can access the tank monitor, the fill, the overflow and the tank outlet hoses.   So that is the only access to the fresh water, big enough to place the SeeLevel components.   More on this later.

The black and grey tanks run transverse, under the floor, just forward of that area.

Both ends can be accessed by taking down the plastic panels in the storage bins just behind the rear wheels.  The tanks have a sloping bottom.  They are about 5 inches thick on the right side and 8 on the left side.  So the factory tank monitors are on the left side – as are the actual drains.  My grey tank doesn’t vent right but that is a story for another post.

Tight Spaces

The black tank is forward of the grey – and only the back half of it is really accessible. AND – there is a step built into the end of the tanks so they can use a metal bracket to mount them to the floor. This leaves only the sides for attaching the SeeLevel sensors.  Maybe you see where this is going.  The only side accessible on the black tank was the one 1” or less from the grey tank. To add insult to injury – they placed the tank heaters on the end of the tank.  These are some sort of wire grid, backed by 3/16 sticky foam about 8 inches wide and long enough to wrap around ¾ of the tank.  So now my only accessible place to mount the sensors to the black tank as between the tanks and about a foot deep into that space.Narrow gap between black (left) and grey tank (right).

As I was concerned about the sensors working in tight space, I contacted SeeLevel (Garnet) and they suggested shielding the sensors with 1/16 rubber gasket material.  Ok – so I actually used that on all three sensors because I had no idea what might be pushed up against the wall in the basement storage area.

But how to do this. Each SeeLevel Sensor is a flexible printed circuit – with components right oh the surface and a very sticky glue on the back.  I knew I was only going to get one chance to get this installed.  Any “second chance” was going to cost me another sensor.   (first I stuck a folded paper towel to a paint stir stick, applied rubbing alcohol liberally – and used that to clean the side of the tank.  Yes, I have alcohol wipes, but this was no place to mess around with little pieces of alcohol dipped paper.

Sensor attached to stick with peel off backing extended.The freshwater sensors went in first, and easiest, as access was quite open.  Then I took the paper that came off the fresh water tank sensors and taped it to the top of the paper protecting the back of the black tank sensor.  Then I took a long stick and taped it to the front of the sensor with gaffer’s tape – taking care to only place the tape on the edges away from components.

Push stick - 2 rubber pieces under tape. I was able then to slide the monitor strip between the tanks and hold it in place while I pulled down on the paper to uncover the glue on the back of the strip.  The stick was able to put enough pressure on the strip to stick it in place.  Then I took another paint stick – added a couple of the pieces of rubber gasket and taped over.  I then used this stick – while carefully looking down the gap between tanks – to press the strip to the tank.   This took a while as I didn’t want to pull off any of the components in the process. Rubber shield with paint stick positioner.

Now for the rubber gasket shield.  Same process, different parts.  I cut a piece of the gasket material that was about 3 inches wider than the strip. Down both edges on one side, I applied a heavy duty double stick (outdoor) tape, leaving the plastic strip on the one side.  I then attached plastic and some leftover rubber strips to the cover plastic so I could pull it down in the same fashion as I did the monitor strip.

Picture up between tanks with shield in place, not stuck down.I pulled the rubber sheet up alongside the monitor strip.  I couldn’t tell very well if I had the horizontal placement correct looking from the end, so I put my phone, in camera mode, under the two tanks, looking up – and used that to try to make sure the monitor strip was in between the Rubber shield w/double stick tape and pull-down strips.double stick tape attached to the rubber.  When I thought all was lined up – I pulled down on each of the tape covers and pushed the sheet against the tank.  Then I worked my stick back and forth until the tape let go of the sheet. Then I used the paint stick with rubber on it to push on the gasket to make sure the double stick tape was making good contact.

 

Control Panel with SeeLevel II placement

Next, I cut the old sensor wires and hooked up the new ones.  I almost forgot the SeeLevel monitors come with about 8 inches of wire – which often is long enough. For these grey and black tanks, I had added another 18 inches to make connecting a bit easier.  It was absolutely required for the black tank.

Inside – there was no room to cut the monitor panel into the existing panel – and some generator indicators were part of the tank monitor and I wanted to leave those for now. Thus I cut a space for the SeeLevel monitor below my existing panel.

Ok, now for my Forest River rant.

When working on the panel – I needed to remove two wires from their spade lugs – did I say that?  Actually, I needed to pull two spade lugs from the back of a switch so I could add power and ground for the SeeLevel.  The wires pulled right out of the spade lugs – as I expect, many of the wires on the panel would do.  Forest River cannot reliably put terminals and crimps on their wires!!! I’ve seen this problem dozens of times on RVs I’ve worked on.  All too often crimp connectors are installed with PLIERS!  Never use pliers – use a real crimp tool.

Second – look at this panel that covers the fresh tank.  There were 5 screw holes UNDER the trim meaning someone put it together that way – THEN decided trim was necessary because it looks like they cut the wall panel with a chainsaw.  Of course, the trim was nailed in.  When I went to reinstall it all, I put screws in because I might just need to get back into that space.  Why use 10 screws on three sides of the panel, then a dozen nails on one side with trim?

I’m a happy user of SeeLevel II.  I just recommend if you want to install yourself, step one is exploring your tanks to make sure you can find a place to install them.  Measure your flat space because you’ll need that to order your sensors.

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