Roughing it smoothly, right……

The second edition of my book is out.  Your RV is Broken is here on Amazon.

Roughing it smoothly.  Smoothly roughing it.  Wearing down the rough edges.  Designing (I won’t call it engineering) every day RVs, right to the rough edge…..

I saw a post in Facebook from someone with a similar melted fuse.  I responded with a comment and pointer to this upgrade/repair in facebook and found several other people that found themselves in the same “boat”.  A couple had the “melted” 400 amp fuse and the melted inverter switch.  One had his panel actually catch fire.  Fortunately, he was outside and saw it in time to get a fire extinquisher on it till the fire dept showed up.  His Insurance company fire investigator pointed to the inverter switch.  I had wondered if this problem was “just me” or because I upgraded my inverter (though all the parts claimed to be rated to be able to handle the load).  Now I see others are having the same problem with unmodified systems.  Spyder (not Lippert as I initially thought) SHOULD have some explaining to do as they are the source for these DC power panels.  

Back of power panel
Inverter switch at top. Three fuses below. Bus bar from right fuse to inverter has been removed in this picture
Back of DC power panel
This shows the “jumper cable” connected right to the inverter switch (separate 400 amp fuse not shown here).

After posting this, and someone people wondering about their own RVs with this panel, I thought I should provide some pointers on how people can check for trouble and/or have their checked for proper connections. One way to check your panel would be to first make sure you are putting some current through the inverter switch.  Either be charging your batteries from a partially discharged state via generator/camp plugin or by drawing a significant load from your inverter that is using batteries (no generator or camp plugin).  If you are pushing lots of current through your battery wiring or a distribution panel such as this, and there is a poor connection heat will be the result.  Get a temperature gun and first take a temperature down in the lower right corner to get a reference.  Then measure the transfer switch and the area beneath the switch (Inverter fuse in this panel right below the left side of switch).  If the temperature is more than a couple of degrees warmer, you might have a resistive connection.  If it is 20, 30, 40 degrees warmer you have a serious problem.  This test has general applications too beyond just this RV. Start with your battery connections and measure the temperature of each and every one.  Then follow cables as much as possible to switches and other high current components.  None of them should be significantly warmer than the ambient temperature.  If you find a hot spot and aren’t comfortable working with high current components then hire someone to check.  The torque specs are on the back of this panel.  If you remove this panel without disconnecting the battery be extra careful. The panel is mounted in a steel frame and the main bus is very close to that frame.  Its best to disconnect first.

If you are the techie type, this might be your excuse to get an infrared camera.  But seriously, every RV should have a temperature gun.  For this purpose, checking brakes, looking for air leaks, checking AC output, refrigerator and freezer temperatures, checking the asphalt temperature in Death Valley, hot springs in Yellowstone and on and on.

DC power panel
DC power panel
Facebook bad switch
From Facebook, another’s melted switch.
Burned up panel
From Facebook: another owner’s burned up Power Panel.

The story:  I just completed a major upgrade on my Tiffen Open Road 32SA.  I’ll call it an upgrade, not a repair, because in one way, having to go down this road is the result of other work I’ve done.

Let’s go back to the beginning.  We picked up our motorhome, November 2018.  Headed right for Red Bay for some repair work.

Then headed out west.  We ended up in Quartzite for what turned out to be a couple of months – including for the big tent sale.  We had been experiencing some low voltage warnings on our 2000W MagnaSine inverter.  We had to be careful what appliances we were running, or we’d end up resetting the MagnaSine.  We went to the big tent show and found a good sale price on four 100 amp-hour BattleBorn lithium batteries.  We swapped four of them in and they helped.  Certainly, let us run the generator for shorter periods of time.  I sold the lead acid batteries for about half price which made me and the buyer happy.

Solar and InverterEventually, we upgraded the 2k MagnaSine to a 3k Victron Multiplus along with 800 watts of solar.  Now we were cooking with electrons.  And we were, often using an air fryer, a cook pot or induction cook top.  We hate the propane stove that came with the RV.  Till one day when the inverter just quit.

Burnt Fuse and busbar
Burnt Fuse and busbar

I pulled out a meter and followed the zero volts path back to find the big red inverter power switch had failed – and traced that to a fuse that heated up the power bus so hot it melted the back of the inverter switch.  The fuse never blew, it just got hot.  There is a long post on this fiasco here.

I bypassed the errant fuse with a short cable and in-line fuse and the next time we were near Red Bay, we had them replace the entire distribution panel.  This panel has three of those one-inch square fuses and four pushbutton circuit breakers AND a solenoid to connect the chassis and house batteries when driving.  The four breakers are held in place with one screw with the other side poking out through the panel.  A heavy wire hangs off each one – with no strain relief.  The tech and Red Bay broke one of these breakers re-installing the panel.  This is a terrible design.  I believe those breakers are designed to be held in place on three if not four sides.

Deja Vu

Fragile breakers
Fragile breakers

So, back on the road and a few months later:  same thing.  The inverter switch burns up.

Fuse holder with burnt insulation
Fuse holder with burnt insulation

We were on a 30 amp campsite.  Normally, I tell the Victron inverter to not allow more than 15 amps through and it supplements any more draw than that from the battery.  But I forgot to his time.  We had three appliances running, plus the air conditioner and popped the campground 30 amp breaker.  The Victron says “I”ve got this, hold my beer!”.  The Victron will actually provide up to 5600 watts for a short period of time.  In this case it was somewhere around 30 seconds before the inverter switch gave up the ghost, again.  This time I had all the parts, so quickly bypassed the failed components, again.

Engineering Dreams

All of the Tiffin/Syder supplied parts are rated to carry that load – but obviously, they really aren’t.  At no time did I ever blow the 400 amp fuses, either of them. So, I started dreaming about a new distribution system, built out of discrete components.  I gathered parts and we looked for a window when we could actually make it happen.  I had to be really sure of my design and parts because getting in the middle of nowhere and quitting wasn’t an option because no DC power means no Spyder controls, no inverter, no air conditioning etc.

Today turned out to be the day.  I laid out the whole system on a pair of boards that I had planned to install on the bottom of the battery bay and the front wall.

New distribution
New distribution

I made all the cables custom for the layout.  But a last-minute discussion with my wife led to the decision to skip the wood.  So, everything was mounted right to the storage bin wall: sheet metal – probably safer.  A lot harder, but I could use the same layout and all the cables were ready to go.

By using discrete components, I can measure temperatures to monitor how things are working and replace any part or connection that fails relatively easily.  On my someday list are more lithium batteries and more solar and this is a design I can be confident will stand up to the punishment and I won’t have to wait in line for parts from Tiffin or Spyder.

DC components w/labels
DC components w/labels

To the left is the new distribution system with labels for all the components.  On the

Power diagram 32SA
Power diagram 32SA

right is a partial block diagram of the power distribution in the 32SA.  The green boxes are AC breakers in the bedroom.  As usual, clicking on any image will bring up a new window with a larger version.

Rambling in the West

So, these blogs are usually written over a several day stretch, sometimes a week or more period because it seems sometimes like there isn’t that much happening. Then days like today, things happen that make me want to sit down and write a bunch.  More on that later.

Capital Reef From Boondocking
Capital Reef

We’ve finally made it to a decent boondocking spot.  We spent much of the last few months moving among Thousand Trails and related parks in Washington and Oregon.  When we left (driven out by smoke), we spent a few days at Iron Springs, near Cedar City, UT.  It was a fairly new, standard design park – with pretty good WiFi – which is unusual, and some real cool iron sculptures.  They are worth driving out and seeing them.  Before that, we spent one night at a place on the other side of town that, in our rush, we didn’t get around to researching cell signals, and thus we had to bail.  There was none.  Well, not none – with my directional antenna I got a full 6 bars, but less than 1kbit per second of data.  That’s not even good enough for email.  At least the smoke that is here, is a couple of levels better than Cedar City and way better than the Bend area in Oregon.  The day we left, ended up being a really long day.  On top of being a 7+ hour trip, we had to deal with one of the towed cars not charging.  Stopping and running it and letting it charge for 10-15 minutes would get us a couple of hours of tow time, maybe.  In the end, we just unhooked and drove it.

Campsite at Capital Reef
Campsite at Capital Reef

We did manage to change the oil in both generators before we left Iron Springs.  We are using them out here – along with our Solar.  But the smoke out here is still quite noticeable and we don’t get full power from our panels.  They DO however help with power and we are glad to have them.  On a good day, solar provides the equivalent of two hours of generator time.  Other, cloudy days, more like one.  Our solar install details are here, here and here.

Oh, where are we?  We are parked outside Capital Reef, on a hill, on BLM land and have already made several safari trips into and through this amazing park.

It is dusty here.  No grass.  We don’t need A/C most of the time – just a couple of hours in the afternoon on sunny days.  Most people out here (this is a busy place) are considerate, but just tonight, some guy parked his Class C ACROSS a road.  There is an alternate access to that road just past where he is parked, but sometimes I just have to wonder how totally unconscious people manage to drive across this country and stay alive.  At least he didn’t park across railroad tracks.

Repairs continue.  Today it was a little wooden stable for a granddaughter that had fallen apart.  And a cover for my daughter’s diffuser.  Before we left the last park, it was a connection in a fresh-water tank overflow.  And here it was running a new power line for the towed connector on their RV.  The car charged fine while towing for 6 months – then started to fail, then quit.  We traced the pin to a wire, to the bundle of splices where it connected into the Ford wiring loom.  No power there at all.  The wire it was spliced into had an RV manufacturer-installed label:  wait for it – “Interior Lights”.  It looked like an 18-gauge wire.  Black wire with a blue stripe.  We checked EVERY fuse we could find in the RV.  We looked everywhere we could for a black wire with a blue stripe – nope, none to be found.  In the end, we grabbed an inline fuse, a spool of wire, and ran a new connection from the house battery compartment to the tow connector pigtail.  The towed car uses an RVI battery to battery charger, so it’s a safe connection.  Because the house is Lithium, and the care, of course, lead acid, you shouldn’t really just plug one into the other.  The manufacturer, of course, Nexus, was completely useless as a resource.

Then there was installing an electric fireplace in the daughter’s RV – a straightforward job as one can be when you have to work with the tools and supplies that happen to be on the RV.

Next, we need to do some more work on the Kayak tie-downs.  What we have is working, just a bit more hassle hooking up than necessary.  My daughter had bought “j-hook”s for carrying their kayak.  It never really fit well.  In the end, we created a couple of carpet-covered boards that the kayak can be slid on from the rear of the car and tied down.  Some tweaking of our kayak continues but in general, we really like the roller supports.

Yesterday some of us took a hike (Deb wasn’t feeling well) down the east side of Grand Wash atGrand Wash, Capital Reef Capital reef.  It’s cool walking down the narrow canyon with the walls a couple of hundred feet above.Hot buss bar

So today?  Well for some time I’ve been feeling like the power numbers were a little off.  Sometimes the battery monitor didn’t show fully charged with the generator was topping off the batteries – and it was taking a little too long to charge.  Things weren’t adding up, but it wasn’t broken so I didn’t pay enough attention to it.

So today, we are fixing lunch.  We have the Ninja Grill running and the microwave.  Should be ok, with the generator running, right?  But the inverter/charger was also charging the batteries.  The generator has two 30-amp circuits.  The air conditioners were off, but the TV, Apple TV, maybe waterMelted Inverter switch heater, a computer and misc were also on.  A circuit breaker on the generator popped off.  And the Inverter tried and failed to pick up the load.

Ok, so I had made a mistake, or two.  One – our Inverter is a 3k Victron – not the 2K that came with the rig.  It has the ability if you limit its power input – to use battery power to make up the difference.  But for that to work right, you have to set a limit on how much AC power it can draw.  I had left mine to 50 amps because we were hooked up to 50 for so long.  The generator breakers are 30-amp.

The two cooking appliances were pulling close to 30 amps by themselves, plus other things when the breaker popped.  Yes, we should have been managing our usage better.  But when I reset – nothing.  I checked the inverter – no lights.  I checked power at the infamous DC power panel next to the batteries – and the Inverter power switch was open/failed.  As I was taking it apart (which necessitates removing the power in the buss bar from the fuse – I noticed the fuse bolt was NOT TIGHT!  I replaced the switch (I had a spare because I still plan on replacing that entire panel).  But when the Inverter switch was off – I’d get voltage through the fuse to the switch.  When the switch was on – I’d get nothing.  Then I realized the buss bar from the fuse to the inverter switch had been hot.  Again.  Same problem we encountered on the beach at S. Padre island that caused me to scrounge parts at a West Marine to bypass the fuse.

The inverter switch showed the same melted plastic around the input bolt and the buss bar show signs of having been hot.  While the switch specs say – up to 300 amps continuous and up to 500 intermittent – should be ok for 3000 watts for our normal use, it has turned out to be insufficient for a 3k inverter.  The specs for the inverter say to use a 400 amp fuse.  The specs also say that continuous output is 3k – but can burst up to 6000.  That would be 460 amps – which is still under the switch’s specification.  The buss bar however showed signs of being hot – insulation was bubbled.  The nut holding the bar to the fuse was barely hand tight, so it seems to me that again, the fuse had again gotten too hot.  I couldn’t remove the fuse – it seemed glued (melted) to the underlying buss bar.  The way this is constructed – a bolt has a plastic washer that insulates it from the underlying buss bar.  The fuse is slipped over the bolt.  Then the top buss bar that passes current to the switch goes on, then a nut that holds it all together.  Power passes bar to fuse to bar via flat surfaces held together only with a 7/16 nut and tiny bolt.  Steel bolt.  Aluminum bars.  Who knows what the fuse it made out of internally – externally, structurely, it’s a form of plastic, with probably copper parts.  I suspect over time thermal changes work it loose.  The higher currents associated with Lithium batteries and 3k instead of 2k inverter exacerbate problems built into inferior quality equipment.

When we were at Red Bay and had them replace the entire panel – I had them leave the cable and fuse we had created as a bypass.  They just heavily insulated the end of the cable and left it.  So, I again, bypassed the failing fuse and used the makeshift cable+fuse to provide power to the new inverter switch.

It’s scary when things break in the middle of the desert, an hour or more from any decent hardware store.  Even scarier when these parts are simply not available in most hardware or even RV parts stores.

We did get some rain today – just enough to raise the humidity a tiny bit and cool things off, but ten minutes later, there was no evidence of rain at all, except the dark clouds receding to the east.

And a few days later….. It started to get pretty cold up there on top of Capital Reef.  So we headed south again – to northern Arizona.  We had reservations at a Thousand Trails campground outside of Cottonwood, AZ.  They had nice large 50 amp sites up on top of the hill and not so nice cramped, 30 amp sites down the hill.  Cell service was only marginal down the hill.  We had planned to spend lots of time in this park, but despite a number of the 50-amp sites being empty, none were available to us.  Generally, we’ve had good experiences with Thousand Trails, but this is the second time we’ve left a TT park early because of our experience there.

We found a nice, new park just a mile away with an attractive monthly rate and plan to be here for a month or two.  Cell is great and we hear good WiFi is on its way.  A Thousand Trails membership is a significant investment – and we need to be able to use them a lot to make it pay.  But here at least, we are better off paying a monthly rate than staying in a substandard TT park.

Bryce
Bryce
Boondocking spot outside of Bryce
Boondocking spot outside of Bryce

More repairs:  The driver’s side mirror was loose at its base.  What a nightmare.  It is held in by four bolts (actually three bolts with nuts inside and one sheet metal screw).  One bolt/nut was buried under 6 inches of spray foam in the engine compartment.  Another is hidden somewhere in the dash, also in the engine compartment.  A third is inside, under the dash – all of those have a loose NUT on the inside.  A fourth self-drilling screw also was used – I never found just where it entered the coach on the inside.  Did I mention – that spray foam was full of wiring, so it had to be removed very carefully.  Hours later, the mirror was fully tightened down and resealed.  I’m sure the design engineers at Tiffin didn’t say “Just bury that entire corner in the engine compartment with spray foam”.  Nor did they think about how hard it would actually be to ever replace or even just tighten the mirror.  Just an inch or so different position and a little more care running wires and foaming would have made the job so much easier.

Kayak’s again – we’ve had several more outings and we are all getting better and launching and paddling  We’ve taken the dogs with us.  Murphy is still a bit anxious but getting better  We also realized that putting our kayak on the truck with just four mounting points was starting to push the bottom of the kayak in – so we created two carpet covered rails to hold the kayak just like we made for the k

And forest fires seem to follow us.  This one at least was about 50 miles away from us.  In this photo – it’s still 0% contained.

We plan to head to Texas at the end of this month (Oct-2020).

 

Mike