SeeLevel II Replay

First Version

A couple of years ago now we purchased a SeeLevel system for our 26ft trailer, well because the tank monitors were screwing up even before we started filling our tanks.  That install was pretty straightforward as things around RVs go.  All three tanks were transverse in the front half of the trailer.  All the factory monitors and thus wires were on the same side. The sides of the tanks were flat so placing the sensors was easy.  SeeLevel II reuses the existing wiring so that wasn’t a problem either.  Inside the trailer – the factory level gauge was in the upper left corner of the main control panel and there was sufficient room that I was able to cut out the factory junk and then insert the SeeLevel panel right into the hole over the panel.

Second Version

So eventually, we traded in our TT for a Class C; Forest River, Sunseeker 3050S.  You might think with a bigger vehicle, it might be easier to get the guts and work on things.  Nope – no way, nada, can’t do it!  Well, it won’t be easy.

The first clue was that the fresh water fill was 6 feet up on the right side.  Huh?  In the bedroom – there is a closet that runs the length of the right side of the RV. It stops 2 feet or so above the floor. The fresh water tank is in that space.  If you take out the closet floor (don’t), you can see the top of the tank. If you go into the rear basement storage and take out the front wall – you can access the tank monitor, the fill, the overflow and the tank outlet hoses.   So that is the only access to the fresh water, big enough to place the SeeLevel components.   More on this later.

The black and grey tanks run transverse, under the floor, just forward of that area.

Both ends can be accessed by taking down the plastic panels in the storage bins just behind the rear wheels.  The tanks have a sloping bottom.  They are about 5 inches thick on the right side and 8 on the left side.  So the factory tank monitors are on the left side – as are the actual drains.  My grey tank doesn’t vent right but that is a story for another post.

Tight Spaces

The black tank is forward of the grey – and only the back half of it is really accessible. AND – there is a step built into the end of the tanks so they can use a metal bracket to mount them to the floor. This leaves only the sides for attaching the SeeLevel sensors.  Maybe you see where this is going.  The only side accessible on the black tank was the one 1” or less from the grey tank. To add insult to injury – they placed the tank heaters on the end of the tank.  These are some sort of wire grid, backed by 3/16 sticky foam about 8 inches wide and long enough to wrap around ¾ of the tank.  So now my only accessible place to mount the sensors to the black tank as between the tanks and about a foot deep into that space.Narrow gap between black (left) and grey tank (right).

As I was concerned about the sensors working in tight space, I contacted SeeLevel (Garnet) and they suggested shielding the sensors with 1/16 rubber gasket material.  Ok – so I actually used that on all three sensors because I had no idea what might be pushed up against the wall in the basement storage area.

But how to do this. Each SeeLevel Sensor is a flexible printed circuit – with components right oh the surface and a very sticky glue on the back.  I knew I was only going to get one chance to get this installed.  Any “second chance” was going to cost me another sensor.   (first I stuck a folded paper towel to a paint stir stick, applied rubbing alcohol liberally – and used that to clean the side of the tank.  Yes, I have alcohol wipes, but this was no place to mess around with little pieces of alcohol dipped paper.

Sensor attached to stick with peel off backing extended.The freshwater sensors went in first, and easiest, as access was quite open.  Then I took the paper that came off the fresh water tank sensors and taped it to the top of the paper protecting the back of the black tank sensor.  Then I took a long stick and taped it to the front of the sensor with gaffer’s tape – taking care to only place the tape on the edges away from components.

Push stick - 2 rubber pieces under tape. I was able then to slide the monitor strip between the tanks and hold it in place while I pulled down on the paper to uncover the glue on the back of the strip.  The stick was able to put enough pressure on the strip to stick it in place.  Then I took another paint stick – added a couple of the pieces of rubber gasket and taped over.  I then used this stick – while carefully looking down the gap between tanks – to press the strip to the tank.   This took a while as I didn’t want to pull off any of the components in the process. Rubber shield with paint stick positioner.

Now for the rubber gasket shield.  Same process, different parts.  I cut a piece of the gasket material that was about 3 inches wider than the strip. Down both edges on one side, I applied a heavy duty double stick (outdoor) tape, leaving the plastic strip on the one side.  I then attached plastic and some leftover rubber strips to the cover plastic so I could pull it down in the same fashion as I did the monitor strip.

Picture up between tanks with shield in place, not stuck down.I pulled the rubber sheet up alongside the monitor strip.  I couldn’t tell very well if I had the horizontal placement correct looking from the end, so I put my phone, in camera mode, under the two tanks, looking up – and used that to try to make sure the monitor strip was in between the Rubber shield w/double stick tape and pull-down strips.double stick tape attached to the rubber.  When I thought all was lined up – I pulled down on each of the tape covers and pushed the sheet against the tank.  Then I worked my stick back and forth until the tape let go of the sheet. Then I used the paint stick with rubber on it to push on the gasket to make sure the double stick tape was making good contact.

 

Control Panel with SeeLevel II placement

Next, I cut the old sensor wires and hooked up the new ones.  I almost forgot the SeeLevel monitors come with about 8 inches of wire – which often is long enough. For these grey and black tanks, I had added another 18 inches to make connecting a bit easier.  It was absolutely required for the black tank.

Inside – there was no room to cut the monitor panel into the existing panel – and some generator indicators were part of the tank monitor and I wanted to leave those for now. Thus I cut a space for the SeeLevel monitor below my existing panel.

Ok, now for my Forest River rant.

When working on the panel – I needed to remove two wires from their spade lugs – did I say that?  Actually, I needed to pull two spade lugs from the back of a switch so I could add power and ground for the SeeLevel.  The wires pulled right out of the spade lugs – as I expect, many of the wires on the panel would do.  Forest River cannot reliably put terminals and crimps on their wires!!! I’ve seen this problem dozens of times on RVs I’ve worked on.  All too often crimp connectors are installed with PLIERS!  Never use pliers – use a real crimp tool.

Second – look at this panel that covers the fresh tank.  There were 5 screw holes UNDER the trim meaning someone put it together that way – THEN decided trim was necessary because it looks like they cut the wall panel with a chainsaw.  Of course, the trim was nailed in.  When I went to reinstall it all, I put screws in because I might just need to get back into that space.  Why use 10 screws on three sides of the panel, then a dozen nails on one side with trim?

I’m a happy user of SeeLevel II.  I just recommend if you want to install yourself, step one is exploring your tanks to make sure you can find a place to install them.  Measure your flat space because you’ll need that to order your sensors.

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It Never Ends….

So, the theme of this trailer is seems is “whenever you look under or in something you find something else wrong”. You’d think by now I’d have seen under everything, but there are a few corners still waiting for me.

Original base mounting
Original base mounting

So, my wife wanted a different toilet, for reasons I won’t go into. So we bought a nice new, ceramic toilet. There were some issues with the old one. For one, it creaked, every time we moved. Two – it came partway off the toilet base – but that wasn’t the fault of the toilet. One of the bolts popped lose – and I managed to get it hooked back on but realized the only way to lock the toilet down was to turn the whole thing about 10 degrees to the right. I surmised that the base had not been properly lined up.

Two screw goofs.
Two screw goofs.
Two screw goofs.
Two screw goofs.
Correct installation showing bolt position.
Correct installation showing bolt position.

Well, this week was swap the “johns” week so I pulled off the old unit and sure enough, the base was not properly lined up. Worse yet there was a one screw that had been driven in half an inch away from its countersunk hole. AND there was another hole where the installer had driven a screw in – in the wrong place – then pulled it out and screwed it into the countersunk hole.
So think about that for a moment. Someone’s job was to screw the base plate in – line up the slots,
drive 6 screws. They missed the lineup and only got 2/3rds of the screws in right the first time and then refused to correct one screw that was wrong. Are they pushed that hard on the manufacturing line? It’s covered up, right? Why fix it?

I was able to turn it to the appropriate alignment, reinstall the screws in their proper place and install the new toilet.

Electrical box, revisited

Right Turn Signal Wire Crimp fell off.
Right Turn Signal Wire Crimp fell off.
Crimp wasn't sufficiently crimped.
Crimp wasn’t sufficiently crimped.

 

After the toilet, I started to install a new TPMS system.  This one has a repeater unit with it that should be mounted under the trailer, near the front.  Since the taillight circuit is present in the electrical box there, that was the obvious choice for location and to tap into power.  I open the box, and carefully pull out the wires to access the right one – and a crimp connector falls off and lands on my face.  The brown wires in the picture are for the right turn signal.  Didn’t need that, did we?  You can see all the way to the bottom.  I don’t use that type of crimp, but I’m pretty sure it is supposed to be crimped with a special pliers.  It looks like it was just squeezed with a standard pair of pliers and none-too-hard at that. Its a wonder it stayed on this long.

Post winter wonderland

Two "door alignment blocks".
Two “door alignment blocks”.

So, we are working on the trailer again, getting ready for a trip and we notice some of the inside cabinet doors no longer close properly – noteably the kitchen counter doors by the back door and the left pair of doors on the bedroom closet.  Its as if the cabinet frame shrunk or the doors expanded.  There isn’t room to move the hinges outward (I’d have to move far enough for the screws to have a secure hole).  I may have to pull and bend the hinges slightly.  Either way, the spacing on the doors was just too small.  Our outside rear door was also hanging.  We’d unlatch and it didn’t want to open.  Pull hard enough, and click – it would pop open.  I noticed a worn spot on the door sill – and sure enough, there was a plastic block with beveled front on the bottom of the door – presumeably this was someone’s failed idea of how to make sure the door closes in the right position after the hinges wear.  All it did for me was hang up on the sill.  Upon looking closer I realized there were TWO blocks.  One under the other on the same screw.  Someone was trying to fix something – but that wouldn’t have fixed a warped door……

 

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